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SiMON FRASER UNIVERSITY
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9. gJ
MEMORANDUM
To
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SENATE
From SENATE COMMITTEE ON UNDERGRADUATE
STUDIES
PROPOSAL - MULTIPLE UNDERGRADUATE
Subject
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DEGREES
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Date.
MARCH 18, 1981
For some time there have been discussions at the Senate
Undergraduate Admissions Board, later at the Senate Committee on
Academic Planning, and more recently at the Senate Committee on
Undergraduate Studies on the desirability of a change in regulations
so as to permit a student to complete more than one undergraduate
degree, either here, or elsewhere and here. These discussions arose
from requests to consider this topic.
The discussions have ranged from a suggested requirement
of not less than 30 credit hours of further approved work through
to a requirement of not less than 60 credit hours of approved work.
Whilst this topic was under discussion there were also reviews by
various committees of the possibilities of certificates, diplomas
and, in particular, the Extended Studies Diploma, multiple BGS
degrees, and multiple minor programs. Discussions ranged broadly
from regulations of a very restrictive type to ensure integrity of
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each individual degree through to rather broader regulations which.?
would embrace the possibility of more than one degree from a faculty
and possibly even in closely related areas. (Many institutions
which permit multiple degrees do not allow more than one from a
given faculty. The structure of SFU with its strong interdisciplin-
ary approaches and multidisciplinary approaches creates a more
complex setting for this broad topic.)
The papers provided will give some sense of the items
addressed. It has not been considered necessary or useful to try
to summarize various pro's and cons of items of agreement or dis-
agreement in the long discussions. This transmittal memorandum
(blue), with the specific motions to be addressed, gives the general
sense of place of this topic so as to facilitate a decision by
Senate. The other materials provide general background information
on some dimensions.
The Senate Committee on Undergraduate Studies, and its
subcommittee, accepted a number of the motions earlier approved by
SCAP and built on that base. The final position represents a com-
promise and is perceived to be middle of the road.
The Committee believes that approval of the following
motions by Senate would establish, along with regulations already
in place, the regulations needed to initiate provision for multiple
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undergraduate degrees. Undoubtedly experience over time with the?
regulations may suggest some useful revisions and the intent would be
to bring these forward from time to time.
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MOTION ?
That Senate approve the following additions to
regulations to provide for completion of multiple
undergraduate degrees:
1.
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The University should provide the opportunity for a
student to complete, normally in series, more than one
undergraduate degree in Arts, Science, Education, Inter-
disciplinary Studies.
2. ?
The same general principles as are applied to Double-
Major and/or Major/Minors within one degree with regard
,'to:
a)
preventing multiple semester-credit-hour counting;.
and
b)
accepting multiple use of course-content with appro-
priate credit-hour replacement
be adapted in a suitable way and applied to multiple
undergraduate degrees.
3.
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The place of origin:i. of a first degree has bearing on
entry for a further degree at SFU only in determining
from recognized institutions the acceptability of grade
point averages for admission and program eligibility.
4. a)
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The basic requirement for any further degree shall be
not less than 60 credit hours of additional work for a
degree with a Major program (or for the BGS) and not
less than 72 credit hours of additional work for a degree
with an Honors program.
b) Of. the minimum 60 credit hours required for a further
degree with a Major program (or for the BGS), not less
than 44-45 hours must be upper division work. Of the
minimum 72 credit hours required for a further degree
with an Honors program, not less than 60 hours must be
upper division work.
c) ?
The department in which the further degree is being
taken has the right to require completion of prerequisite
lower division courses in addition to the minima specified
under 4 a) above.
5.
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General University regulations covering a first degree
apply to a second degree - unless otherwise stated or
clearly implied. These include, but are not limited to
a) minimum GPA required for graduation;
b)
maximum number of transfer credit hours countable
towards Minor/Major/Honors programs (minimum number
of SFU credits required for Minor/Major/Honors programs);
c)
maximum number of transfer credits countable as upper
division work toward the minimum of 60 or of 72 as
applicable;
d)
Otherwise, general faculty and departmental regulations
apply, except that students enrolled in further degrees
are not required to complete group requirements.
O6. ?
A student may not enrol in a further degree program at
SFU in a subject in which
a)
he/she already holds a degree from SFU or elsewhere;
b)
i) a student who has a Minor (or equivalent) in a
particular subject from SPU or elsewhere may
enrol in a further SFU degree with a Major/Honors
program provided that the formal conditions under
2. above are met. A further, pragmatic condition
is that the program at SFU can accommodate to the
satisfaction of the department involved the taking
of a Major/Honors program in the same subject beyond
the earlier Minor (or equivalent);
ii) A student taking this option will not be allowed to
transfer courses from earlier Minors or near Minors
and there can be no waivers granted on the basis of
this earlier work. This means that 28-32 new course
credits will have to be taken for a new Major, for
example.
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SiMON FRASER UNIVERSITY
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MEMORANDUM
................Professor J. Webster
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dem
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From
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P ro fessor
E.W,....Rob.ert.. .... ....... ..... ..................
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Associate Vice-President Acaic
Chairman of SCUS
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Member on.. SCUS . . ...... ......... .........................
REPORT OF SUB-COMMITTEE (SCUS) ON
Subject
...
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MULTi.ELE...UNPERGtT
E
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DEGREES..................... .
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.
ate
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February .... 1.7, ..... 1.98.1 ...................................................
Please find attached the final version of-the report of the
scus Sub-Committee on Multiple Undergraduate Degrees. Copies have been
sent to each member of the Sub-committee and I ask that Professor
L. Peterson be Invited by you to the meeting of. SCUS when this report
Is on the agenda. You will, I am sure, appreciate that this report
reflects a synthesis of the opinions expressed in our meetings and is
not of necessity a consensus report in all regards.
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Attachments
C
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C . M.K. Egan, Education
L.K. Peterson, Chemistry
• Roberts,. Faculty of Arts
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E.WThbertS,FACC
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MULTIPLE UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES
Report submitted to SCUS by the Sub-committee on Multiple Degrees
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established by Professor J.M. Webster
Assoc. Vice President Academic &
Chairman of SCUS, October 22, 1980
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Members of the Sub-committee
Dr. E.W. Roberts, FACC, Chairman
Dr. K. Egan, Education Faculty
Dr. L. Peterson, Science Faculty
Mrs. S. Roberts, Administrative
Assistant,
Dan of Arts
Resource personnel
H.M. Evans, Registrar
1•
In order to make the Sub-committee's report as clear and as easy
to deal with as possible, the following format has been adopted:
I. ?
Acknowledgements.
H. ?
List of documentary sources and copies thereof. Such an inclusion
provides SCUS with the necessary background information on the Issue
and eliminates the need for the Sub-committee to generate speciously
novel or spuriously reworded motions and rationales when these are
already available in adequate form in records of earlier discussions.
Ill. Motions, progressing in series from the more general to the specific.
IV. ?
Notes. Referred to in the text of the Motions by superscript numbers,
these are designed to inform SCUS, where It is deemed relevant, of
procedures (dialectical, formal) adopted by the Sub-committee, or
differences of opinion, reasonable alternatives, etc.
The report of the Sub-committee 15 now submitted -1-0 the Senate
Committee on Undergraduate Studies for consideration.
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ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
The Chairman of the SCUS Sub-committee on Multiple Degrees wishes
to express his sincere gratitude to: Drs. K. Egan and L. Peterson
for their invaluable contributions to the work reported herein; to Mrs.
S. Roberts, who had to withdraw for health reasons, for her participation
In the first "rap session"; to Mrs. L. Morgan and Mrs. R. Norsworthy,
recording secretaries, for their fortitude in. surviving one meeting each
of a committee consisting of three soft-spoken Celts - a Welshman, an
Irishman and a Scotsman; to H.M. Evans, Registrar and Secretary of
SCUS, the Sub-committee extends a particular xpression of gratitude for
the classic manner in which he was able to keep. a committee with
distinctly innate tendencies towards a. Joycean stream-of-consciousness
approach to the Issue on a reasonably straight and narrow path! His
ability to out-verbal ise us merits nothing lass than a Horatian tribute:
qui recte vivendi prorogat horam,
rusticus exspectat dum defluat amnis; at tile
labitur et labetur in omne volubilis aevum.
Epist. I. 2 41-43
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II. ?
SOURCES (Copies Appended)
I.
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SUAB Paper 68 (Revised). Amended version of J.H. Borden and
D.L. Baillie 'Bachelor's Degrees Unlimited' submitted to SUAB
Fall 1975. Sent to SCUS Secretary (undated) by A.C. McMillan and
entitled 'Bachelor's Degrees Unlimited'. Reference designation:
SUAB 68.
2.
SCUS 80-55 MULTIPLE UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES September 17, 1980,
containing extracts from Papers submitted to SCAP. Reference
designation: SCUS 80-55 page 3.
3.
MULTIPLE UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES; SOME ITEMS REQUIRING CONSIDERATION
Unsigned. Attributed HME. Reference designation: HME September 1980.
III.
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MULTIPLE UNDERGRADUATE
DEGRE ES*:
MOTIONS TO SCUS
I. ?
THE UNIVERSITY SHOULD PROVIDE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A STUDENT TO
COMPLETE, NORMALLY IN SERIES
t
, MORE THAN ONE UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE IN ARTS,
SCIENCE, EDUCATION, INTERDISCIPLINARY STUDIES.2
Refs. SCUS 80-55 p. 2 (c) (I); SUAB 68 s.v. RATIONALE 2), 3).
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2. ?
THE SAME GENERAL PRINCIPLES AS ARE APPLIED TO DOUBLE-MAJOR AND!
OR MAJOR/MINORS WITHIN ONE DEGREE WITH REGARD TO
a)
PREVENTING MULTIPLE SEMESTER-CREDITHOUR COUNTING;
AND
b)
ACCEPTING MULTIPLE USE OF COURSE-CONTENT WITH APPROPRIATE CREDIT-
HOUR REPLACEMENT
BE ADAPTED IN A SUITABLE WAY AND APPLIED TO MULTIPLE UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES.
Refs. SCUS 80-55 (c) (Ti); SCAP 80-55 p. 3
3.
THE PLACE OF ORIGIN OF A. FIRST DEGREE HAS BEARING ON ENTRY FOR
A FURTHER DEGREE AT SFU ONLY IN DETERMINING FROM RECOGNIZED INSTITUTIONS
THE ACCEPTABILITY OF GRADE POINT AVERAGES FOR ADMISSION AND PROGRAM
ELIGIBILITY.
Ref. SCUS 80-55 (c) (IFi).
4.
a) BASIC REQUIREMENT FOR ANY FURTHER DEGREE BE NOT LESS THAN 60
CREDIT HOURS OF ADDITIONAL WORK FOR A DEGREE WITH AMAJOR PROGRAM
(INCLUDING B.G.S) AND NOT LESS THAN 72 CREDIT HOURS OF ADDITIONAL WORK
FOR A DEGREE WITH AN HONOURS PROGRAM.
b) OF THE MINIMUM 60 CREDIT HOURS REQUIRED FOR A FURTHER DEGREE
WITH A MAJOR PROGRAM (OR B.G.S.)
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NOT LESS THAN 44-45 HOURS
MUST BE UPPER DIVISION WORK. OF THE MINIMUM 72 CREDIT HOURS REQUIRED
FOR A FURTHER DEGREE WITH AN HONOURS PROGRAM, NOT LESS THAN 60 HOURS
MUST BE UPPER DIVISION WORK.
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c) THE DEPARTMENT IN WHICH THE FURTHER DEGREE IS BEING TAKEN
HAS THE RIGHT TO REQUIRE COMPLETION OF PREREQUISITE LOWER DIVISION
COURSES IN ADDITION TO THE MINIMA SPECIFIED UNDER 4 a) ABOVE.
5. ?
GENERAL UNIVERSITY REGULATIONS COVERING A FIRST DEGREE APPLY
TO A SECOND
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DEGREE-UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED OR CLEARLY IMPLIED.
THESE I'NCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO.
a)
MINIMUM GPA REQUIRED FOR GRADUATION;
b)
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF TRANSFER CREDIT HOURS COUNTABLE TOWARDS
MINOR/MAJOR/HONOURS PROGRAMS, (MINIMUM NUMBER OF SFU CREDITS REQUIRED
FOR MI NOR/MAJ OR/HONOURS PROGRAMS).;
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c) MAXIMUM NUMBER OF TRANSFER CREDITS COUNTABLE AS UPPER DIVISION
WORK TOWARDS MINIMA OF 60/72;
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d) OTHERWISE, GENERAL FACULTY AND DEPARTMENTAL REGULATIONS TO APPLY,
EXCEPT THAT STUDENTS ENROLLED IN FURTHER DEGREES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO
COMPLETE GROUP REQUIREMENTS.
6. ?
A STUDENT MAY NOT ENROL IN A FURTHER DEGREE PROGRAM AT SFU IN A
SUBJECT IN 'WHICH
a)
HE/SHE ALREADY HOLDS A DEGREE FROM
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SFU OR ELSEWHERE;
b)
(I) A STUDENT WHO HAS A MINOR (OR EQUIVALENT) IN A PARTICULAR
SUBJECT FROM SFU OR
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ELSEWHERE MAY ENROL IN A FURTHER SFU DEGREE
WITH A MAJOR/HONOURS PROGRAM PROVIDED THAT THE FORMAL CONDITIONS
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UNDER MOTION 2 ABOVE ARE MET. A FURTHER, PRAGMATIC
CONDITION IS THAT THE PROGRAM AT SFU CAN ACCOMMODATE TO THE
SATISFACTION OF THE DEPARTMENT INVOLVED, THE TAKING OF A
MAJOR/HONOURS PROGRAM IN THE SAME SUBJECT BEYOND THE EARLIER
MINOR (OR EQUIVALENT);5
(Ti) A STUDENT TAKING THIS OPTION WI
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LL NOT BE ALLOWED TO
TRANSFER COURSES FROM. EARLIER MINORS OR NEAR MINORS AND THERE
CAN BE NO WAIVERS. GRANTED ON THE BASI
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S OF THIS EARLIER WORK.
THISMEANS THAT 28-32 NEW COURSE CREDITS WILL HAVE TO BE TAKEN
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FOR A NEW MAJOR, FOR EXAMPLE..
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IV.
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NOTES
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The term DEGREE refers in all cases where it occurs unmodified
in the text to Bachelor's Degree (B.A., B.Sc., B.Ed., B.G.S. ...).
I.
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With the availability at SFU of the options of Double-Major etc.,
the Sub-committee could establish no rationale to support the
principle of offering the-opportuni
ty
of taking two or more degrees
simultaneously. The word NORMALLY in the motion is intended to apply
to cases such as the following:
Student X needs 3 credit hours to complete the
requirements. for his/her first degree. He/she
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may apply to take, for example, a further 12 credit
hours in the last semester of his/her first degree
and to count these towards a further degree.
See .SCUS.80-55
p.
2 (d); SCAP 80-55 p. 4, 3)a, b.
2. ?
a) In the event of the acceptance of the principle stated herein,
the Sub-committee wishes to stress at the outset the Importance of
the Advice Systems (Departmental, Faculty and University) in
providing guidance to the students on optimal use of the various
alternatives available at SFU.
b) It should be clear In later motions referring spedficaI 1y
to
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--, Majors and Honours programs that the B.G.S. Is automatically
excluded in such cases.
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3.
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This motion has the advantage of being satisfactory. from several
points of view. For Instance:
a)
Since a Department in which a student enrols for a further
degree has the.clearly stated option of requiring course-work beyond
the minimum
60/72
hours (Maj., B.G.S./Hons.), sufficient safeguards
are built in to ensure maintenance of standards at SFU;
b) There is no need to write out special, institution-related
requirements (cp. 1 81-81 Calendar,
p.
42).
4. ?
Students should be advised to read
pp.
43-44 of the present
Calendar very carefully and to check with the various Departments on the
status of transfer credits
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vis-a-visspecific programs.
5. ?
It was pointed out
In
the discussion on this topic that students
taking this option could be advised of the possibility of utilising
available Individual Study Semesters, Honours essay courses, etc..
6. ?
The Sub-committee spent considerable time on this topic. One
alternative suggestion worthy of further consideration, is that this option
be withdrawn and full(er) use made of'the ESD option.
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SIMON FRASER UNIVERSITY.
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L.K. Peterson
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Dept. of Chemistry
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Date ........... ....btty...A9A...................
Dr. E.W. Roberts, Chairma,n
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FACC
do
DLL
Subjed
The present Committee has been one of the more pleasant ones to serve on,
and has proved extremely'Interesting in that detailed considerations of the
fundamental philosophies of Undergraduate Degrees are required.
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We have
examined the "Multiple Degree" proposal for a relatively short period of time,
and my own views have develope
d
and evolved somewhat slowly, for which I apologise.
It seems to me that all undergraduate degrees consist of two components,
Identifiable as a 1'knowledge"..c0mP0nt and as an "intellectual" component. The
"knowledge" component will clearly vary from discipline to discipline or subject
to subject. ?
The "intellectual" component, however,, must have many features
common to all disciplines. The "parts" of this component may be further
recognised as skills of analysis, logic, interpretation, cognition, communication,
verbalization, etc. etc.
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The "honing of the mind", and the development of the intellectual skills
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would seem to be the primary goal of the University degree, with "knowledge"
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as the material upon which to-exercise those skills. Thus a progressive
development is envisaged, until "knowledge" and "intellect" ultimately qualify
for the-B.A. or B.Sc. distinction. Raving qualified once, how can the individual
repeat the process and "qualify" a second time? How can "graduates" and under-
mm
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graduates be placed together in the same prograe, and evaluated by a coon
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yardstick? ?
The answer, I believe, lies in the fact that a limited number of
"undergraduate routes" are sufficiently different that they can provide distinctive
learning experiences.
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In these circumstances there is a rational justification
for a second Undergraduate degree. it leads to a motion of the type:
"The University should provide the opportunity
.
for a student to complete,
normally :° series, more than one undergraduate degree in Arts, Science,
Education and Interdisciplinary Studies, provided that the individual degre
e
p
rog
rammes require substantively different academic demands and intellectual skills-"
I would also like to see a further statement - "and provided that high academic
standards are maintained throughout the mono- andmultiple-undergraduate degree
systems". This statement places demands and expectations upon S.F.U. as an
institution, and requires some measure of accountability. The trat.afer of credits
"on faith", with little or no knowledge of course content or quality, becomes a
questionable practice. There is a danger that relaxations of requirements and
standards that are made in order to "accommodate" the second degree become the
precedent for slippage at the first degree stage. The increasing loads of interpre-
tation that falls upon Departmental counsellors is indicative of a lack of policy,
and cannot contribute to defined, rational and constancy of scales of standards
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at S.F.U. Since it is the University (not Departments) that grants degrees, a
• • senior committee (e.g. Senate) should be responsible for the integrity of its
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qualifications.
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MEMORANDUM
......................... Senate ... Commit.tee...on ?
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from.... ?
H.M.
Evans ? .-.
Undergraduate
......................scus
Studies
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Secretary
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MIJLTIPLE..UNDERRADUAIE ..DEGREES.......
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Date .............. ......September ... l.7., ... 198O ......................
I. GENERAL BACKGROUND INFORMATION
(a)
Recommendation was made some time ago that the
University
remove its policy which prevents a student from receiving more than
one undergraduate degree from SFU,orfrom SFU and elsewhere.
Some recommendations were submitted through
SUAB for consideration
by SCAP. There was preliminary discussion at meetings of SCAP with
• number of questions being raised but without final resolution of
• paper to go forward to SCUS and Senate.
At the times the submission wasbefore SAP, that body was
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clearing provisions for the
then
about to be introduced Extended -
: Studies Diploma and various certificates. There was suggestion
for some time that provision of the Extended
Studies
Diploma might
remove requirement for multiple degrees. This later changed.
SCAP was also receiving proposals which had been made
to introduce
double minor degrees in Faculties other than Education. The-poten-
tial interrelationships were complex, particularly as final decisions
had not been made
1 with recognition that a
number of policy regulations
would be required to be added
relative
to the Extended
Studies
Diploma.
A number of these items have since been
resolved and within the
past year changes and additions to regulations
covering
the Extended
Studies Diploma were made and have improved the operating conditions
and requirements for those documents. The
advances . in that area
were made by establishing a small working committee to address the
Issues and submit papers to SCUS and Senate..
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.
In the
discussions held at SCAP there were a number of decisions
made relative to multiple
.
- undergraduate degrees. Atthe•same time
a number of issues still require resolution. On the basis of the
decisions made by SCM', it had been accepted that the next stages
primarily are the concern of SCUS and
require consideration
and ?
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approval by that body before submission to Senate.
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(b)
A copy of each of the following items
is provided herewith.
(i) Multiple Undergraduate Degrees - a paper considered by SCAP,
with some changes from meeting to meeting, which
indicates
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a number of questions which were to be addressed. The
paper has not been fully updated. Some questions have been
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answered and the results are given below.
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Copies of some
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current appropriate calendar pages are attached.
(ii) 'A
copy of the proposal' from SUAB is appended. That proposal
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is subsumed by the later developments at SCAP.
Cc)
SCAP has approved the following motions.
(1) That in principle the University should provide the opportunity
for a student to complete more than one undergraduate degree.
(ii) That the same general principles as are applied to double-majors
and/or major/minors within one degree with regard to
(1)
preventing multiple
semester-credit-hour counting
and
(2)
accepting multiple use of a course-content with
'appropriate credit-hour replacement be adapted
in a
-sitni-lar
way and applied to double undergraduate degrees
S1Itt1AhI
(iii) That the place of origin of the first
degree has
no bearing
on entry for the second degree
S(iv)
That requirements for a second
undergraduate degree be not
less than 60 credit hours of further work beyond the first
undergraduate degree
(d)
SCAP was discussing the following motion but did' not complete
decision
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That a student normally should not be'permitted
to register
for two undergraduate
degrees concurrently.
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Decision is
required.
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(e)
Decision is needed' on the number of hours and
types of hours of the'
60
hours needed which'must meet specific requirements;
e.g.
(i) minimum number of upper
division courses to be taken
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(ii) courses
for a major
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,
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for a minor if possible
for honors
(iii) a BGS and the.conditions
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• (iv) transfer credit, if - any, if
none
' (or
a
'small number) have
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been taken
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(v)
regulations covering various interrelationships, as for
majors, minors, double, joint, diplomas, certificates, etc.
(vi)
related topics
(f) Merrbers now will know that the minimum credits for an Extended
Studies Diploma was established at 30...
They also will know that decision was made to not extend the double
minor provisions in lieu of a major for other than Education, and
earlier discussions.to
contemplate a type of BGS in each Faculty
were discontinued.
II. ACTION PROPOSED
That SCTJS establish a small working committee to consider and
recommend on various aspects of proposals for multiple undergraduate
degrees to provide report back with proposal in writing to the
Chairman of SCUS prior to October 31st. (It is proposed that the
committee may include one or more persons who are not members of SCUS,
but may be designated by a Dean or by the Chairman of SCUS; that the
Secretary of SCUS will act as Secretary of the subcommittee and as
resource person, and that the subcommittee be chaired by the Chairman
of
SCUS
or his
designate; that meetings commence immediately.
A list
of
issues to be reviewed is
available
for the working committee.)
Enc5
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Multiple Undergraduate Degrees
W
n the following the use of credit hours 30, 45, etc., shall be taken
to represent a norm rather than exact. Thirty normally, in the Faculty
of Arts may mean 28 in Science or 32 in some departments in Arts, etc.)
1) This topic potentially is one of considerable complexity, raising
questions akin to those considered by SCUS and Senate in relation
to double-major programs, to major-minor programs, and to the as
yet unresolved joint-major programs and joint-honors programs.
Attention is drawn, thereore, to the
*
current principles and
regulations shown in the 1977/78 Undergraduate Calendar, pages 32,
34 (special notes on double majors, major-minor, etc.), Appendix I
herewith.
if) The Senate Undergraduate Admissions Board considered a submission
entitled "Bachelor's Degrees Unlimited" (SUAB 68), which was
designed basically to remove the current restriction at Simon
Fraser University that a student cannot obtain more than one
undergraduate degree (from here, or from elsewhere and here)
,
and
to make possible the.taklng of two or more undergraduate degrees
from here or from elsewhere and here. It was made clear that
approval in principle was being sought and suggested that details
of implementation could be worked out by the appropriate offices.
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The basic paper adapted a number of current principles and it
xequired that a student complete at least two further years (60
semester hours or more) with a new major subject of at least 30
upper division semester hours not already taken in the new disci-
pline, as specified by the Department concerned. It also proposed
that if there were duplication of course work between the student's
former studies and anticipated new major study programs such that
there would be fever than 30 upper division credits available in
the new field the request to pursue the second degree should be
denied.
There was limited opposition by some that 60 hours be required; by
some on potential undue overlap; and other concer
ns.
SUAB approved
the paper in principle
'
with details to be developed. A number of
details were considered, revisions were undertaken, and -a rewritten
•
paper was developed, but with minimum details and -with insufficient
details to permit potential Implementation or even adequate neces-
sary discussion. .A copy of that paper is provided herewith, Paper
SUAB 68 revised. (When that paper was developed there was no
suggestion of the present proposals for diplomas and certificates.)
The SUAB paper basically takes the position that any student with
a first degree (whether from Simon Fraser University or from another
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university) be treated much like 'atransfer student with two years
completed, requiring not less. than sixty hours for the second degree
here, with at least 30 of those hours in upper division work in the
new major discipline and not used in any way on the first degree.
It clearly applies one of the two main principles which currently
pertain to double-major8 or major-minors on a single degree in
that it prevents multiple-counting -of semester-hours credit. How-
ever it does not make clear, but rather seems to deny, a second
principle that an upper division course might be used in multiple
ways for content purposes across degrees if there is appropriate
credit-hour replacement. It seems obvious that if this were not
permitted there would be great restriction as a course compulsory
for the second degree major may have been taken as an elective, or
on a minor, for the first degree.
Without such provision the situation could be relatively straight-
forward for a department with many upper-division courses and with
few restrictions in the matter of compulsory courses; it could be
potentially restrictive or prohibitive for a department with few
upper division courses or with many compulsory courses. For exaáple,
if in his first degree here a student took no courses from a small
or a restrictive department he potentially could take his second
degree through that department. If, however, he took a few sample
upper division courses (or, even worse, a compulsory upper division
major course) from that department on his first degree either as an
elective or on a minor he could be barred from completing a second
degree, but might do so if there were enough unused upper courses.
In particular, without some special provisions of the type. used to
facilitate double-majors and major-minors on a single degree, a
student with a double-major on his first degree could be more
restricted from a second degree than would a student with a single
major and broad electives. In any given discipliner a student with
a major-minor would be less restricted than a double-major student
but more restricted than .
a single-major student with broad electives.
An honors student similarly could be more restricted than a general
student because of the additional courses needed in the given honors
subject..
It should also be noted, however, that if great flexibility be per-
mitted a number of somewhat unclear or anolDolous
)
and possibly.
suspect
j
situations could arise. At present, on a single degree a
student cannot obtain recorded entry of both a minor and a major in
a single discipline. Be can obtain recorded entry of a minor (or
minors) an
.
a major (or majors) in separate disciplines. Could a
student with a first degree at S.F.U. with inajorin X and minor in Y
take a second degree with major in Y (by including 30 upper division
hours not already taken in Y - or, even more interestingly, by
including a further 30 upper division hours of which only 15 are In
Y and with the other 15 in either free, Or authorized, replacement
credits for the 15 used. for the minor in Y On the first degree)?
In either case over the two degrees the student would then have a
major in X, a minor in Y,a major in Y. This theoretically could
be carried over two degrees with a major in X, minor in Y on degree
one, and minor in X, major in Y on degree two, but hopefully would
not be approved as the minor
In
X would follow the major in X. It
is because of these types of concerns that the SUAB paper takes a
somewhat restrictive, but possibly understandable approach.
16
.
.
-3-
One additional item should be observed. At present, on any single
degree, a student must include at least 45 hours of upper division
S ?
work with at least 30 hours in the major subject (except BGS has
no major). This applies
,
to fully internal students or to transfer
students. The SUAB paper, an the second degree, does not make
this requirement of 45 upper division hours, but does require 30
hours of not-previously-taken upper-division work in the new major.
It allows the remaining 30 hours of the 60 needed to be either all
lower division or upper division or a combination, giving%great
flexibility (possibly unneeded) to pick up prerequisites. If the
SUAB paper be modified for greater flexibility in other ways it then
may be desirable (if-the second degree calls for a further sixty
hours) to require that
45
of those hours normally be upper division
with at least 30 to be upper division in the new major subject (or
in appropriate upper division replacement courses).
Because of the variety of approaches which might be undertaken, and
with some recognition of 'the brief discussions in SCA.P as compared
with the SUAB approach, it seems necessary that there be further
preliminary discussion to aid in the development of a re-fined paper
or papers for review at a subsequent meeting..
A question which will arise is that of whether the same or different
conditions should be applied to students who 1) have their first
undergraduate degree from S.F.U. and desire a second one; ii) have
their first undergraduate degree from elsewhere and desire a second
one.
It seems desirable that
there
be reasonable equitability of opportunity
for students who wish to obtain generally equivalent qualifications.
At the same time it is considered essential' that there be no doubt about
the credibility and standards applied to the earning of any certificate,
diploma, degree, or combination thereof from this institution. As a
first condition, therefore, the following recommendation :Ls made
particularly with reference -to
a
student with a first undergraduate
degree from S.F .U. desiring a second undergraduate degree. Discussion
may indicate if it is appropriate for others. .
* Recoxnmendatipn:
That the same general principles as are applied to double-majors and/or
major-minors within one degree with regard to
a)
preventing multiple semester-credit-hour counting and
b)
accepting multiple use of a course content with appropriate credit-
hour replacement
be adapted in .a suitable way and applied to double undergraduate degrees.
.Although there has been some discussion at SCAP concerning multiple degrees,
and in particular on a possible Extended Studies Degree, there has not
- been discussion in depth pending some clarification in the SUAB multiple
undergraduate degrees. It has not been clear as to bow or whethe an
S
'-4-
Extended Studies degree
might
differ, or need differ, or should differ
from the proposed regular multiple undergraduate degrees. The SUAB
paper proposed not less than a further sixty hours beyond the
first
degree; some suggestions at'SCAP have been for an Extended Studies
degree of 30 or 45 or more credit hours beyond the first degree.
Normally the SUAB paper, when adequately developed, would 'have gone
forward to SCUS rather than SCAP but is here appropriatel
y
because 'of
the interrelationship of current discussions on degrees. It seems
necessary that the present general position of SCAP be determined, as
it relates to the SUAB general proposals,. The following types of
questions arise, and it is suggested that general discussion possibly
with straw votes be taken in an attempt to clarify the position. 'At
this stage of development further formal motions may prove inhibitive
to proper development.
A Few Questions
(Recognizing that much further development of , the. SUAB paper is required
and looking for a suitable base on which to proceed')
1. Does SCAP support the principle of a change In present policy to
permit a student to complete more than one undergraduate degree
a)
at Simon Fraser University, or.
b)
elsewhere and then at Simon Fraser University?
2a) Does SCAPsuPport.the general proposal as put forth by SUAB on the
matter of multiple undergraduate degrees with a requirement of at
least sixty hours of further work beyond the first degree for a
second undergraduate degree
i)
for students with a first degree from S.F.U. seeking a
second undergraduate degree (rather than a diploma) from
S.F.U.?
ii)
for students with a first degree from elsewhere seeking a
second undergraduate degree (rather than a diploma) from
OR
S.F.U.?
b) Does SCAP support some other thought loosely., suggested earlier at
SCAP for less than sixty'hours of further work beyond the first
undergraduate degree for a second undergraduate degree (rather
than a diploma) as indicated, in a)? If so, what would be an
appropriate minimum number of hours and under what type of condi-
tions. The Intent will be to ask questions about those with a
first degree from S.F.U., and those with a first degree from
elsewhere as in a) if necessary.
? -
3. In view of the perceptions to this point should a student normally
be permitted to register at the undergraduate level
a)
'
concurrently for two undergradua
te
degrees'
.b) for a second undergraduate degree only after the first Is
i) . fully completed
?
.
'ii) -substantially completed, e.g. the student' is completing
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MMORMMUM
H. M. Evans ..
?
. ?
.. ?
.
From
?
Alan C. &MflIan . ?
.
Sep
rgIox y .-...505 . ............ . ?
.... ..... ... .. ... ... ...
Secretar
y
, .-su
pg ?
.---.-..-
...........-
0
od ?
8achelor's.D
g
rees..Unlim.1.ted .................
?
.. ?
...._.....
A proposal allowing students to
study In Arts,
Science and
Education for a
second
bachelor's degree was presented to SUAB
by J.H. Borden
and D.L.
Baillie In the Fall of 1975. The
Senate Undergraduate. Admissions Board
agreed with
the principal
and on the basis of the discussions the original paper was
amended
and Is
herewith submitted to
SCUS fot consideration
and eventual referral to Senate, provided the proposal
Is
approved by your cOnvnittee.
ACM/cl ?
.
1
:1
BACHELOR'S DEGREES UNLIMITED
FIREAMBLE
Simon Fraser University has along-standing policy which
• ?
denies rrost persons who already hold a Bachelor's degree
In Arts, Science, or Education, the privilege of earning
a second
or additional one. This policy holds regardless
of the institutions at Which the original degrees were
granted. and regardless of the prograe of studies
pursued at Simon Fraser University. The reasons for the
present policy are not obvious and we contend that this
policy should be revised as outlined below.
MOTION: That persons who hold fully recognized degrees
in
Arts, Science or Education, be allowed one
or more additional Bachelor's degrees, provided
that each
new
degree at Simon Fraser Is in a.
different major field of study than the person's
previo!s degree(s).
RATIOHALE
1.
Students holding Bachelor's degrees In programmes
other than Arts, Science or Education are eligible
to. study fGr a
.
second degree at Simon Fraser Univer-
•
? sity.
2.
Many students want tot obtain a degree(s) in a new
field of
study
because of changing, or renewed
acadm1c, or career goals.
3.
Other Institutions allw second degrees In the same
Faculty and without a change In policy Simon Fraser
stands to lose some very good students.
IMPLEMENTATION:
• Degreed persons should be evaluated
individuallY
by the
Department in which they wish to major. AckninistratiVely,
• they
should
be subject to the same, or similar criteria
as transfer students, or students who change their major
subject within the University. They should be granted no
more than 60 semester hours transfer credit. In the four
semesters or more in which they pursue their new majors,
they should cc*çlete at least 30 hours of upper division
credit In the new major subject, as specified by the
•
?
Department concerned. If there Is duplication of course
• ?
work between the student's former and anticipate
d
major
stud
y
prograeS. such that there are fewer than 30 hours
• . •. .. ?
. of upper division credit available in the new field, the
-. •. request to pursue a Bachelor's degree In the new field
?
•
•
?
• ?
should be denied.
? ••
